1994 by GEnie ========================================================================== This file is brought to you by The Commodore 64/128 RoundTable on GEnie This file may be published or excerpted in User Group newsletters providing credit is given in this manner: "Copyright 1994 by GEnie From the Commodore 64/128 RoundTable File#:#####" This file maybe be distributed, if distributed whole and unaltered, on , croll, uit ? non-profit BBSs or non-profit networks. For more information on GEnie call by modem: 1-800-638-8369 (8-N-1 300/1200/2400) Enter: HHH Then reply: xtx99018,commrt Then enter: Commodore And enjoy! ========================================================================== The Commodore RT had a special treat when it had a combined Creative Micro Designs and Commodore World Conference on Tuesday, August 24, 1994. Mark Fellows,the President of CMD, who made his first appearance on GEnie was there as well as Doug Cotton,the editor of the Commodore World magazine. The group was rounded out with two writers for Commodore World magazine: Steve VanderArk and Sherry Freedline. This turned out to be the biggest attended conference in years as users poured into the cybernetic room. The conference covered six topics which generated large numbers of questions from the audience. This resulted in a conference that went beyond its intentional three hour limit, with users staying after 2 a.m.. This conference was hosted by GEOS-TIM [Tim Hewelt], with transcript capture and editing chores going to THE.OUTLAW [Cameron Stewart]. C128.QT.PIE [Sherry Freedline] wore two hats: as a guest speaker and as a behind the scenes greeter and information facilitator. You are in for a special experience, enjoy the transcript. :) -Tim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay....conference time I would like to welcome everyone to tonight's conference Tonight we have some special guests: Mark Fellows, inventor of Jiffy Dos, President of CMD, designer of the CMD hardrive, and author of CMD dos. Hello Mark Doug Cotton, Director of Technical Services at CMD and editor of Commodore World. <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Hi Tim!, I'm still here! Great <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> I think Mark is a little overwhelmed by all this text running past so quick. :) Hi everyone. :) Mark is new to using GEnie so he is cramming a lot of learning curve in a short period of time <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> OK, welcome everybody, and Please bear with me as this is the first time I have done this! We also have one of the writers of Commodore World, Sherry Freedline She is wearing two hats tonight ....writer for C= World and Hostess <[Sherry F] C128-QT.PIE> Hi Everybody! :) Tonight's conference is divided into two main parts:Creative Micro Designs, Inc. and Commodore World. CMD's portion is divided into three topics of questions: History, Future CMD moves, and Products. The Commodore World portion is divided into three topics:The Inception of C= World, C= World Now, and C= World's Future. I will be asking questions concerning the topic, and will open the floor to audience questions at the conclusion. Ask questions pertaining to topic under discussion please. Our first topic is history....... How did CMD get started? <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Well, I started with JiffyDOS on my own about 7 years ago. I marketed it through Computer Shopper and Keyboard Magazine. In 1987, I talked with Charlie Christianson at a family picnic, and we decided to get together. Slowly, since then we have built our product line and reputation. END That brings up a question about how you ever got the idea for Jiffy Dos? <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Well, I was writing a MIDI sequencer for the 64, and noticed how horrendously long it took to load files. After that, I kind of got sidetracked into doing JiffyDOS while I tried to find ways to speed up the loading of the sequencer files. END Doug, how did you get into the CMD picture? <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> That came a bit later, after the company had been around and selling JiffyDOS for a couple of years... I was working for Abacus back then, and met Mark and Charlie at one of the World of Commodore shows. We got to chatting when the HD project got underway, and they needed to add some support staff. They flew me out to look things over, and the rest is (as they say) history. END <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Doug started on with us in 1989, about the same time we released the HD Series Hard Drives. Okay, I'm opening the floor for questions from the audience. Are there any questions concerning the early beginnings of CMD? Indicate by typing /rai and I will call you in the order that I recieve it. Gaelyne, from C64 alive has a question. go ahead Gaelyne <[Gaelyne] G.MORANEC> Mark, whatever became of your MIDI sequencer? <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> JiffyDOS became such a project that there wasn't time for anything else.. By the time JiffyDOS was finished, everybody was using Mac's to do sequencing! END ** <[Gaelyne] G.MORANEC> disconnected. <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Guess she didn't like that answer... LOL, Tony Peroitti has a question. <[Tony] A.PEROTTI> Engage groupie mode: How old are you guys and how many employees does cmd have? <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Let me get out my calculator... <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> I'm 37 and Doug is 85. <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> I guess I'm 85. No, I'm 37! <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> The employee count varies according to the season. There's a number of part timers - the total count is anywhere from 10 to 15. <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Charlie Jr is the youngest I think... How old is he now, Mark? <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Charlie is about 29 I think. <[Tony] A.PEROTTI> Thanks! Jake Hamby has a question <[Jake] J.HAMBY5> Seems like JiffyDOS went from v1 to v6 really quick. Were there any big changes made or just bug fixes? Also, how did you learn to write a fastloader? <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> At first (V1 to V2) there were just bug fixes. V3 was just an Alpha release for V4. V4 was when we first incorporated the DOS Wedge into JiffyDOS (it used to have commands like TYPE and DIR). V5 as when I incorporated dual-bit transfer routines to really get the speed up there. V6 came along when I found a way to cram the file copier and some other goodies into the 4 bytes of extra room I had left! I learned to write a fastloader by trial and error and by reverse engineering the fastloaders in other products like Fast Hack'Em, etc. END <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> I think there was a lot of experimentation involved too... seeing what did and didn't work well. END Mitron Bendure has a question <[Mitron] M.BENDURE> What bugs did JiffyDOS take care of in the original CBM DOS? If any? <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Well, JiffyDOS was designed primarily as a speedup system, and we didn't pay too much attention to the bugs.. In the 1571CR (the drive in the 128-D) we did incorporate a number of fixes that CBM left out. Fixes that they had incorporated in the latest 1571 ROM. END <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Fixing bugs that CBM didn't fix can lead to incompatibilities, so we took the safe road. END Brenda Gann, the famous Superbase enthusiast, has a question. <[Brenda] B.GANN1> What was the time span between the different versions of JD (as in how long did it take ya to learn all that stuff) To Tim... Famous? :) <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Lets see... The very first version was started in late 1985. The current version (V6) was finished in the summer of 1989, about the same time Doug started on with us. END <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Yep... in fact my first assignment was to update that manual. END <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> That's right, and you did such a good job that it remains the same to this day! END Rob Knop, one of GEnie's well known GEOS enthusiast has a question. <[Rob] R.KNOP1> I've been a little out of it for a year, but I think this is history: has CMD started supporting platforms other than the 64/128, and which ones? <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Nope. All we do is 64/128 to this very day, and in fact, we're so busy doing it that we wouldn't have time to do any other platform right now. END <[Rob] R.KNOP1> Excellent. Jake Hamby has a question. <[Jake] J.HAMBY5> Two quickies: First, did you have to pay CBM to use their ROMs in JiffyDOS? Second, did you have a lot of returns on systems with soldered ROMs (like my C64C)? (my friends and I almost destroyed my C64 desoldered the darn Kernal!) <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> We have (had?) an agreement with CBM concerning the ROMs, though the details of that can't really be disclosed. <[Jake] J.HAMBY5> fair enough... <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> We have negotiated a contract with CBM to use their ROMs, although the terms should not be disclosed here. <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> I say 'had' since CBM really is no more... <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> As far as returns go, we see very few. Most people manage to find someone who can help them with the job. END <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> We used to get back more 'botched' installations than we do now, but it's always been rare, yes. END Nick Rossi, author of Novaterm, has a question. This will be the last one on this topic. <[Nick] N.ROSSI> How did you end up as a clearinghouse for such a variety of C= software and hardware? <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> That was really more a matter of default than anything... <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> By popular demand, as they say. <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> As more companies dropped out, it left very few of us offering sales and support We did make a concerted effort about a year ago, though, to diversify... Since this helps us increase our sales base, as well as helps expose new users to our own products. END We are moving to the next topic. There will be a general question period at the end of the conference where you may ask any unanswered questions. The future......What goals of future moves does CMD have planned that may affect the Commodore user? <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Well, we plan to continue to support the market, first and foremost. That in itself is what we like to hear <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Along with that, we just can't help but come up with new ideas to keep the C64/128 moving ahead. As technology progresses, we keep trying to find ways to adapt it to the 8-bit platform. The FD Series drives are a good example... We started using the ED drives (2.88/3.2MB) before many people even heard about them for the IBM. <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> We can't get real specific on those things though, since we learned long ago not to talk about 'future products' until they enter the 'REAL SOON NOW' stage. <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Yeah, we've gotten in trouble before when we've opened our big mouths! END <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Sure have! :) I guess I can't ask my next question, well I'll ask it anyway: Are there any innovations in the hopper that you can tell us about? <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Well, there are a couple of things we can talk about... First, we recently found that Skyles had run out of GEOCABLE's.... So we've designed a new one. That project is on it's way to production now. It's also an improved design... it has a switch for the Pass-through port, (which the Skyles design lacked). This allows a modem and printer to be hooked up simultaneously without conflicts. We've also recently started shipping the Trackball... There have been good reports concerning trackball.... <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> ...which is fully compatible with both joystick AND mouse controlled programs. <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> I've been trying to think of an easy way to get a CD-ROM connected... <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Yes, we're very pleased with both the trackball and mouse. :) We're also playing around with the FLASH 8... This is an 8 MHz accellerator which is being made in Germany. It needs some real improvements, not only just to work in the U.S., but also to make it a little more reliable and workable on more systems. There'll be some news about this in upcoming issues of Commodore World. END <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Fax software to go with our Swiftlink/Fax modem combination is another idea we would like to find some time for. END I think we will get to audience questions now, since we have so many of them. Our first questioner is Fred Ogle, co owner of Color 64 BBS and Commodore RT staff member. Go ahead Fred. <[Fred] F.OGLE> Does this accelerator work in 64 mode, 128 mode, or both? <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Currently it works only on a 64. That's one of the things we're concerned with improving on it. END <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Unfortunately, only the 64 mode right now, but we hope that this shortcoming can be resolved END <[Fred] F.OGLE> I would just also like to add that this is very encouraging news (CMD licensing the M roms), thanks fellas. Tom Patch has a question. Is CMD making any effort to track down copyright holders of older software titles is see if they will make them available? For example CP/M. <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> We have in a couple of cases, and will do so where we deem it is necessary... But in the case of CP/M, it's a big mess, and a lot of trouble for a very small audience. Digital Research owns it, but Commdore owns the patches to make it work on a C128. <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> A problem we run into is when a larger company holds the copyrights, and does not feel it is worth the effort to put a lawyer into action. END <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Generally such companies want more than a product can bring back in profits. END Thank you Night Owl has a question. go ahead Night Owl ok i need to know where i can find a good fast formatter for my 1571 disk drive in 128 mode or 64 either 1 :) <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> JiffyDOS! :) where can i find it do you have the library # ? <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> The formatter in JIffyDOS is built in and works from within any program that sends the drive an NEW command! <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> JiffyDOS is commercial product - a ROM replacement set. does it check the disk as it formats ? <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Yes, it includes full error checking.. unlike some of the software-based utilities. END <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Guess we're moving into the PRODUCTS topic here a little though, which is the next segment... END Bill Chachkes, VP of the Bronx user group, has a question. <[Bill/BUG V.P] W.CHACHKES> hi guys,..Hey doug! my question is concerning weather or not you plan to market some sort of removable media drive? <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Actually, we don't at this time... however... <[Bill/BUG V.P] W.CHACHKES> yes??? <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> I can tell you that we'll be giving some info on how to use a Syquest drive with a CMD HD in future issues of Commodore World. They work well, btw. :) END <[Bill/BUG V.P] W.CHACHKES> Ahhhh great,.thAnks doug,.and my regards to charlie jr <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Okay, Bill, thanks! :) Jake Hamby has a question. <[Jake] J.HAMBY5> Yes, it seems like hard drives on PC's are getting bigger and cheaper (and the programs are getting bigger and bigger!). How does this affect the prices and the capacities of the CMD HD series? <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> It has brought the prices of our drives down also! <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Well, actually it's a boon for Commodore users because of prices coming down. But it will mean that smaller drives will dissapear as time goes on. END <[Jake] J.HAMBY5> okay. Do you think you might just sell the controller and let the user choose? <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> No. We've actually done that in the past... It creates a lot of support headaches, a lot of time on the phone... <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Well, that's one option, but its not as easy as you might think to get everything working. <[Jake] J.HAMBY5> I can imagine! Thanks... Gaelyne Moranec, associate editor of C64 Alive, has a question. <[Gaelyne] G.MORANEC> Mark and Doug, I suppose this would go under "history" (ancient?) , but I'd like to know a little about your educational background ? Hey Tim, I'm THE Editor for CEE-64 Alive! Magazine. Congratualtions, I stand corrected. <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> As far as I go, I've had computer electronics training (SW & HW) in college and after that a LOT of on the job learning with various companies. END <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> I'm basically self-educated in computers. I took electronics in high school, and had a little more formal training in it in the Army. I also worked as an Electronics Technician for an automotive electronics manufacturer for several years. But in computers, I'm pretty much self-taught. END <[Gaelyne] G.MORANEC> :) No problem, Tim. Thanks Doug and Mark! Rob Knop has a question <[Rob] R.KNOP1> For a long time I've maintained that the health of CMD was much more important to the 64/128 community than the health of C= these days. However, with the recent death of C=, will there be problems, e.g. with ROM licensing, for CMD? <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> I don't forsee any problems whatsoever with ROM licensing. <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> We don't expect any problems, no. As far as the market goes, Commodore has ignored it so long, their departure means little. Once a new owner is named, we'll discuss the ROM issue with them. But again, I don't forsee a problem there. They'll end up with something they didn't expect, at worst. END Cam Stewart, Host for the Commodore RT, editor of the transcripts of this conference, and up and coming GURU of internet has a question. Getting back to the Accellerator a sec, when you finally have it working to your satisfaction and ready to market, how easy will it be for the average person to install? <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> EASY! :) okie, I can handle sockets, thats why I asked :> <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> As it exists now, it simply plugs in, and at worst may need an ajustment. Let me clear that up a little... it plugs into the cartridge port... don't have to open the computer. No jumpers or anything like that? <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Currently it has no jumpers into the computer, no. ok, if it plugs into the cartridge port, how will it work with Ramlink? <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> It works well right now with RAMLink, but only in GEOS. <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Whether it will work fully with RAMLink or not remains to be seen. That's another issue that is being looked into. Great! Thanks! Do you have an idea what it might cost? ball park anyway <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Price-wise, I couldn't say. That will depend a lot on what needs to change. END Gunter has a question. I have a question concerning the CMD hard drive? Can I copy my favored programs to it?They are the 128 Pocket series. <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> The Pocket 128 series is copy protected heavily... they cannot be copied to other devices like the HD or RAMLink. END <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> The best way in all cases is to remove protection entirely. Thanks!!! We are moving into the products topic as I we finish up the Future segment. Brenda Gann has a question <[Brenda] B.GANN1> Well, it was answered... but here is a comment to the last one... if you can't copy the programs, you can still probably copy the data files. For example, not copying Pocket Writer, but you could copy the text files. <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Correct Breanda... you can use our devices as data drives for application that won't allow themselves to be copied. Tony Perotii has a question <[Tony] A.PEROTTI> I've gotta comment that I have been using JiffyDOS for about 2 years and I bought an HD40 8 months ago and they are the finest stuff I've ever owned for my C=. Thanks for a job well done. Q: Has JiffyDOS reached its FINAL version level? <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> I think its there. To progress further would require additional hardware. <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Thanks Tony. Uh, we've learned to never say never, but we have no current plans to upgrade JiffyDOS. <[Tony] A.PEROTTI> Thanks! <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Although, with RAMLink, there is some room to put some new functions, so that may be a future possibility. END Nick Rossi has another question. <[Nick] N.ROSSI> q: Do you think you can make the 8 MHz accelerator cost effective against going out and buying, say, an Amiga 600? (I'm not suggesting any REAL C= 8-bit user should just opt for the other computer :) (The Outlaw stole my question... figures with a name like his :) <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Well, it will certainly be more cost effective when you consider the cost of buying all new software & peripherals, etc. <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Well, one could certainly argue that hardware-wise, the 600 might come in for less. But as Mark says, add in software, peripherals, etc., and yes it would be more cost effective to stick with the 64. END <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> However, it won't be cheap, because the C64 was never designed with 8MHz in mind, and doing so requires all sorts of 'tricks' & expensive circuitry END Greg Noggle of Color 64 BBs fame, and host on the Commodore RT has a question <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Heck, Greg, I didn't know you were famous for Color 64! :) <[Greg] G.NOGGLE> I was wondering how thing would work out with my me using the a64 on the amiga iand using the cmd hd on a multiplexer with it and connected to a 128 in 64 mode running color 64. He is famous for having a Color 64 BBS <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Ah. I see now. :) <[Greg] G.NOGGLE> must have got me confused with a different greg :) <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Well, with A64 you get an adaptor that allows you to connect to Commodore 64/128 serial devices... Now, that will work fine with something like the HD. But you definately won't get any access to RAMLink via that method. <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> I think that would work OK. I remember you asking about the RAMLink before, however, and I doubt that the A64 would ever be able to access it. <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> The multiplexer shouldn't present any problems there, either. Correct Mark. :) END <[Greg] G.NOGGLE> figured but it shouldn't affect the use of the ramlink and parallel by the 128? <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Anything on the serial bus should work fine.. END <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Well, yes, it can... If you're going to use a multiplexer, then you shouldn't attach the HD via parallel, or should disable parallel. <[Greg] G.NOGGLE> why ::curious mode::? <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> You see, the multiplexer has no idea when an access is happening via the parallel port, and might try to use the same resources in the HD via serial at the same time. This could cause a problem.... split data or a lockup. Right Mark? <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> I think it would be OK as long as the serial and parallel didn't try to access simultaneously. <[Greg] G.NOGGLE> how about if I shut down during the transfer from the amiga? then that would alliavate it. <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Of course, thats a big if. <[Greg] G.NOGGLE> you just ansered that,okay thank you :) Brenda Gann has a question <[Brenda] B.GANN1> Ok, several things... one Mark is doing fine. Two, comment on A64... I tried to use it with a 1581 and it did not show a file that was over 1,000 blocks long haven't investigated it though. Now, my Q... <[Greg] G.NOGGLE> a64 is desighned for 1541 brenda <[Brenda] B.GANN1> Greg you asked about using an HD with it. <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> Yep, probably a flaw in it's directory handling routines. <[Brenda] B.GANN1> Will the Flash 8 have a pass through port for the Swiftlink? Will it work with Swiftlink? <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> A little early to tell on that. Currently it doesn't, but that will indeed be investgated. Good question, Brenda.:) <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> Good question. I don't think our prototype had a pass-thru. <[Brenda] B.GANN1> Then how does it work with RL? <[D.Cotton] CMD-DOUG> It plugs INTO the RL Brenda. END <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> It plugs into RL's pass-thru. <[Brenda] B.GANN1> You HAVE to have RL then? <[CMD-MARK] CBM-PRESS> You don't have to have a RL to use the Flash8. <[Brenda] B.GANN1> Ok, plugs into the pass through or into the computer. But there is only one pass through. So not both at this time. thanks I have quite a few people that have questions, but we really need to get to The topic of Commodore World We wwill hopefully have a general question period at the end Our next topic is Commodore World