Tonight's C-128 Conference is hosted by Loren Lovhaug, Editor from TC 128
Magazine.  We're discussing magazines...how well you like their 128 coverage,
what you think about the different ones altogether, and what you enjoy
reading.  You'll find information at the end of the conference about the
now famous vaporware RAM Disk software, and suggested head honchos at
Commodore to write to to get their attention.  Please take the time to send
a letter telling them you want and need the RAM disk.  I'm sure that with
enough legitimate requests, someone will start wondering why it hasn't been
released already!   <smile>

See you next week at the Conference...!


Sub: Minutes of your RT Conference.

From Steno: Jennifer Marlowe

<OMICRON-I> Hi all.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> So Deb, what mags to you like/read?
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Hello Fiz
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Hello Mike
<[steve] FIZBAN> Hi everyone
<MIKEM> Greetings.
<DEB> I suppose you want to know about Commodore magazines, huh?!   <grin>  I 
like Omni, Nat'l Geographic and Publish...!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Naw...
<OMICRON-I> <Omi!! Oh...Omni....:8>
<DEB> 'lo Steve, Mike and Traveller!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I read US News, and modern writer
<[steve] FIZBAN> Hi Deb,  I read Info!
<OMICRON-I> I like READER'S DIGERT Myself.
<DEB> Loren:  to tell the truth about computer magazines, I take a slug of them,
   but rarely read anything besides InfoWorld, Computer Currents and
   Computer Shopper.
<[steve] FIZBAN> Omni is the best for science magazines...
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I like Currents and Shopper for the ads
<MIKEM> Lo there, Mr. W!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I hate Manager World
<[G.Tirebiter] W.BUSH> Hiya Mr.M.......does this think have a talk mode ??
<DEB> I don't usually like magazines because the stuff is old news to me.
<MIKEM> BTPro?  Has a line buffer, yeah.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Of course a lot depends on what one buys mags for
<[G.Tirebiter] W.BUSH> Yep...hows ya do it (hate manuals)....
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Bush: C= L
<[STEVE] FIZBAN> Mikem: is that the 128 or 64 version?
<MIKEM> And turn off local echo (if its on) with C= E
<[G.Tirebiter] W.BUSH> ok neat......thanks.....
<[G.Tirebiter] W.BUSH> hmmm ok i see...
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Let's do a laudry list
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> laundry list that is
<[G.Tirebiter] W.BUSH> proper spelling is everything
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> What do you like or dislike about Commodore Magazine?
<MIKEM> Too many type-in programs.  Articles usually aint bad tho.
<[G.Tirebiter] W.BUSH> like run...but getting really thin.....commodore mag is 
   bigger
<[JD] JDCLARK> The only telecomm topics they discuss are about Qlink...
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Anybody else on Commo Mag?
<MIKEM> <smile>
<DEB> I have rather thought CBM Magazine was too general....ie, trying to do 
   too much for too many computers and accomplishing little.
<[G.Tirebiter] W.BUSH> of course run mentioned genie favorably....even said we 
   have 1000 new prgs a month!
<[FROSTY] SOULTRAVELER> WHEN MY COMMODORE RUNS OUT THAT'S IT FOR ME.
<[STEVE] FIZBAN> Info is not bias to any telenet system, and is not bias to any 
   software publishers...
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I think Commodore Mag's review policy is interesting
<[G.Tirebiter] W.BUSH> month
<DEB> Loren:  we already know their telecommunications policies...what are 
   their reveiw policies?!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> They don't review bad programs, i.e. if its bad they 
   don't write on it
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> At least that is what Jim Gracely states
<DEB> helpful.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> He feels that they should not give press to bad 
   products
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> of course
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> we are talking about the house organ
<[JD] JDCLARK> I do like their 'C' series..
<MIKEM> Why dont we ever see three or four people reviewing the same package in 
   the same magazine?  It's good to hear differing opinions, from the same
   folks monthly.
<DEB> I wonder if they accept ads from the same "bad product"?!
<[G.Tirebiter] W.BUSH> Saw a 128D in my local Lynchburg store.....we dont even 
   get K-mart ads here....
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> so the policy might be motivated by "something else"
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Okay lets move on to Compute's Gazette
<DEB> Loren: naw, I doubt it....I'm sure that Jim's reason is that, plus the 
   fact that because they ARE Commodore...
<DEB> they don't want to "hurt anyone's feelings".   a LOT of glossies have 
   THAT attitude about giving poor reviews.
<[JD] JDCLARK> aauugggghhhh! (Gazette)
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I like Jim, and you are probably right, Deb
<[G.Tirebiter] W.BUSH> including advertisers deb ??
<[STEVE] FIZBAN> I use to be an adict! but I've noticed that there is nothing 
   new in them...
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> anybody else on Gazzette?
<DEB> I dunno about the advertising...that was just an interesting question.
<[FROSTY] SOULTRAVELER> I LIKE COMPUTE GAZETTE AND RUN.
<[G.Tirebiter] W.BUSH> Lets vote...w/ help from yall experts.....the best..?
<DEB> How about Compute! in geneneral...?!  *I* don't like having to buy TWO 
   magazines for Commodore coverage!!!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I like Gazette's programming articles, and they try 
   to publish
<[JD] JDCLARK> I find the questions penetrating, like how do you format a disk?
<[G.Tirebiter] W.BUSH> RUN....
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> things in BASIC
<DEB> JD:  heh...!  the same way you formatted the disk in the first year of 
   Compute!  <grin>
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Could we please take each mag one at a time first
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> then vote
<[G.Tirebiter] W.BUSH> well ok but......
<[STEVE] FIZBAN> I use to like getting the Ahoy mag for the art gallery, does 
   anyone have a collection of the doodle and koala screens from Ahoy's art
   gallery?
<[JD] JDCLARK> They seem to encourage the asking of questions that can be 
   answered by reading te manuals...(my point)
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> That is a good point JD
<[G.Tirebiter] W.BUSH> I Gotta go.....night all.....and of course .....Shoes 
   for Run !!
<MIKEM> Night Mr. W!
<DEB> If the Gazzette would be ALL commodore coverage under one cover, I'd 
   maybe even take it again.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Okay, next mag: RUN
<[JD] JDCLARK> I let my sub. slide--restarting would also mean getting 3 
   back-dated issues!
<[JD] JDCLARK> (Sorry--Gazette that is)
<[FROSTY] SOULTRAVELER> RUN IS # ONE!!!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I personally think RUN is sloppy with the facts too 
   often
<[JD] JDCLARK> I like Run also--but not much programming information generally.
<[FROSTY] SOULTRAVELER> GAZETTE IS # TWO!!!!
<DEB> Loren:  I'm sure a lot of that sloppiness is from their extraordinary 
   lead times.
<[STEVE] FIZBAN> Transactor is the best for programer info!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Naw the sloppy facts are mostly on things like usage
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> and reviews
<[FROSTY] SOULTRAVELER> COMMODORE IS LAST!!!!
<DEB> haha...!  but they get the news sloppy, too.
<[JD] JDCLARK> Run's Telecommunicating column is generally fairly good...
<DEB> JD:  ya really think so?!   I've never read such misleading answers in
   all my life...!
<[FROSTY] SOULTRAVELER> OK
<[JD] JDCLARK> Really--I hadn't noticed that.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I guess I think with the money behind RUN, I believe 
   they could do a better
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> job
<DEB> has RUN lost a lot of its premiere writers of years before to Amiga?
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Some, but many are still there
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> they just wear two hats at Amiga World and RUN
<DEB> RUN's always seemed to me to be out of step with real-life uses of your 
   computer, too.
<DEB> <but unique and entertaining probably sells more magazines, eh?>
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Yeah, a few too many checkbook progs
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> They are the largest in readership
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Okay, lets move on to: Ahoy!
<DEB> I think they are the largest in prices of ads, too.  <grin>
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> My latest rate card agrees with you Deb
<[JD] JDCLARK> Ahoy doesn't have too much 128 stuff in it...
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I like Rupert's stuff, and Kevelson is always good
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> most of the rest is fluff
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> and type in space games
<[JD] JDCLARK> (smile)
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Actually in September of 1985 (a long time ago)
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Ahoy ran to straight issues of prime pre-128 coverage
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> but it has fallen off since then quite a bit
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> two this is
<[JD] JDCLARK> I had problem with at least one of their type-in programs not 
   working...
<[JD] JDCLARK> THAT's frustrating.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Anybody else on Ahoy?
<[FROSTY] SOULTRAVELER> ONLY READ IT ONCE.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Okay, next up is: INFO
<DEB> hmmmm, I have real mixed feelings about INFO.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I personally have mixed feelings on INFO
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> wow
<DEB> *snap*
<[JD] JDCLARK> How do you do that?
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I think INFO is very entertaining
<DEB> (are you all impressed...?  For our next trick.....)
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> ** smile **
<DEB> For what INFO set out to do, I think they've done a great job!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> But I think some of the "how we started this thing...
   " stuff gets a bit long
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> for most readers
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I liked it, but only because I identify with their 
   story
<DEB> their INFOrmation is better than any other magazine you've mentioned.
<[FROSTY] SOULTRAVELER> DEB HOW DOES IT DO THE C128?
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I also think that they focus a bit too much on games
<DEB> sporadically, i guess.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Their focus has changed a lot
<DEB> Loren:  but games are what people buy, and what they almost always want 
   to know about.
<DEB> INFO is rather like a user group meeting on paper.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I'd say they are about 50% Amiga, 20% C-128, 30% C-64
<DEB> I'd hazard a guess that their readers are not 50% Amiga owners.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> That is tru but their coverage is
<[JD] JDCLARK> They seem to be moving more toward the Amiga.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Okay anymore on INFO?
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Okay, how about: TRANSACTOR
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I like the BASIC and Aseembly language...their C 
   stuff I can live with out
<[JD] JDCLARK> Like their support of machine language--one of two that 
   publishes ML source.
<[JD] JDCLARK> They also seem to have more Amiga coverage lately.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I think that RUN will be the only mag of the ones we 
   have discussed that will
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> avoid the Amiga
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> RUN will not cover it because CW publications already 
   publishes Amiga World
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> and because they are very solvent
<[JD] JDCLARK> I don't think that's bad--but until I have one, Amiga coverage 
   is pages that could cover the 128!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Let's see, any other mags to discuss, before I bring 
   up magazine issues and
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> policies
<[JD] JDCLARK> Twin Cities 128?!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Never heard of it
<[JD] JDCLARK> Hee hee hee!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Tell me, what do you like and dislike about that one
<[JD] JDCLARK> Well, it's this little mag that's great...
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> What makes it great, JD?
<MIKEM> 'lo Lyle
<[Lyle] LYLEG> Hi Mike
<[JD] JDCLARK> Look forward to getting it more than any other--trying to get a 
   grass roots organization together to push for bimonthly publication!
<[Lyle] LYLEG> Hi *SWEETS*, Loren, JD
<[JD] JDCLARK> Hi, Lyle!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Is there anything you don't like about this one, JD?
<[Lyle] LYLEG> brb
<DEB> (did you pay him to say all that, Loren?)  ::smile::
<[JD] JDCLARK> I like the current info, the excellent reviews, and the 
   programming hints that don't say "first you push this button!"
<[JD] JDCLARK> Sorry, out of sync...
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Don't have the money to pay him to say stuff like 
   *that*
<[JD] JDCLARK> Haven't any complaints!
<DEB> (awwww)
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Ah...in a stack of papers, i seemed to have run 
   across one of those
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> TC-128 things
<[Lyle] LYLEG> back
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I have a few complaints about it
<[JD] JDCLARK> Perhaps CBM should offer an automatic subscription to anyone 
   buying a 128!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> ^^^^I like that idea
<[JD] JDCLARK> (and of course subsidizing TC128)
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> ^^^^^^ like that idea even more
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> keep 'em comming JD
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> Hello fellow 128'ers
<[JD] JDCLARK> (the checks in the mail?)
<[Glen] G.MARIANKO> hello... so what's the current topic out there?
<MIKEM> (slipping out for din-din)
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Honestly, I think money is the big problem with that 
   organization
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> They ought to find some big corporate sugar daddy to 
   finance them
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> Well, just trying to keep posted... Any news on the 
   miracle release of RAMDISK?
<[JD] JDCLARK> But how could you fix that without big-time advertisers?
<[JD] JDCLARK> Maybe a grant from CBM..
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> No news, it gets me down everytime I look at my phone 
   bill, frank
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Frank I keep seeing this same number: 215-431-9100
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> Yeh, hmmm sorry to here about that and I appreciate your 
   efforts!!!
<[Lyle] LYLEG> At the Chgo Commodore fest, Jim Butterfield stated he had seen 
   the 128 RAMDISK.
<[Lyle] LYLEG> Not quite a finished product but close.....
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> Any comments??
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Okay, any other comments on specific mags
<DEB> (hey...speaking of efforts, EVERYONE write to Irving Gould and the new 
   CBM prez and demand the ram disk....!)
<[Lyle] LYLEG> However he could not say if or when CBM would release the 
   RAMDISK.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Well I know Jim has a copy, and it is finished
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> Deb!!  I will send 1000's of them,  What's the info?
<[JD] JDCLARK> shouldn't we demand the DEVPACK too?  Any word?
<DEB> write to them at the commodore address listed on your manuals and stuff...
   1200 Wilson Drive
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Well Brian MacDonald is sending letters out saying it 
   is about to be
<[Lyle] LYLEG> DEVPACK??
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> released
<DEB> West Chester, PA
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> both DevPack and RAMdisk 128
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> Deb, Who to?  I forgot what you said.. Fred Bowen???
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Fred told me they are actually going to PRINT the 
   DevPak manual
<DEB> nono, Irving Gould and MacDonald.
<[JD] JDCLARK> You know, I noticed that when I bought my 128D, it has *no* 
   warranty card--how does CBM know I have one?
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Don't send it to Fred, he can't do anything about it
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Mine had a card, JD
<DEB> (poor Fred)  yea, these are the big guys at CBM.
<[Lyle] LYLEG> JD, does it have a FCC tag on it??
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> The warrenty card doesn't do anything anyway!!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Here are two other names to bug:
<[JD] JDCLARK> Besides the one to DRI?
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Julie Bauer
<DEB> I should send in my warrantee cards more often, that way I'll be on the 
   mailing lists when Commodore sells them!
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> I have been using Commodore for over 5 years and never 
   received anything from
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> them
<DEB> Ray:  you won't.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Alfred Duncan
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Okay everybody got it: write: Julie Bauer, Al Duncan, 
   Brian MacDonald and
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> the big cheese: Irving Gould
<DEB> at 1200 Wilson Drive   West Chester, PA
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> I didn't even recieve a free copy on LOADSTAR tm or 
   Commodore Magazine (tm)...
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> As was stated with certain manuals of computers and 
   accesories from CBM....
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I'm going to publish those names in TC128
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> By the way....
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Yes Frank?
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> I'm one of the unfortunate ones that hasn't yet 
   experienced TC128....
<[JD] JDCLARK> oh, no!!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I'm sorry to here that
<J.KRESS> me to!!!
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> Same here, I'm sure I'm missing out a lot...
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> That is like not ever having an orgasm
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> hahahaha.....
<[Lyle] LYLEG> You are missing out on  solid information for the 128! And I am 
   sorry to not...
<J.KRESS> not quite the same but close.
<[Lyle] LYLEG> have subscribed sooner!
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> I would very much like to start subscribe VERY VERY Soon, 
   Like now!!!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> look out for flying macros
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Twin Cities 128, P.O. Box 4625, Saint Paul MN 55104
<DEB> ::applause::
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> $25 per year or $2.50 per issue
<[Lyle] LYLEG> ::more applause::
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> ::::: The crowd's going wild!!  ::::
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Remember: children under 43 not admitted without cash
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> slap
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> nah checks are fine
<[JD] JDCLARK> Any back issues older than #10?
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> Listen...  Did anyone have trouble logging on to GEnie???
<DEB> not tonight.
<[john] J.KRESS> Neat IRQ 80 column clock thingie in the next issue. YEA, RAH!!!
<[Lyle] LYLEG> Yes, the local number was busy, had to call a more distant 
   number.
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> Yeh, Thanx deb, I will return my info later tonite!!! 
   Thanx a MIL!!!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Nope, all sold on everything besides #15 and #16
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> There is a great IRQ clock thingie in issue #17
<[JD] JDCLARK> my dreams of a complete set shot...
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> Here in Miami, no answer..... I had to try for about 5 
   times...
<DEB> Great CO tonight, folks!!  I will post it in the libraries tommorrow 
   night sometime.
<JSCHULZ> 'evening, all
<DEB> Ray:  give GEnie a ring at their 800# if you are having that kind of 
   problem:  800-638-9636
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> And of course, we print the source
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> I'm sure there's a good Disk Cataloging program for the 
   128 in directories..
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> Any suggestions?
<[JD] JDCLARK> You're one of two!
<[Lyle] LYLEG> Transactor still has a lot of good information, but I think even 
   they are...
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> The GEnie customer service folks are great
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I like Transactor
<[Lyle] LYLEG> starting to spread a little thin covering too much.
<[Lyle] LYLEG> don't get me wrong I really like the good information That 
   Transactor gives.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> Hey JD
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> You can get a complete set
<[JD] JDCLARK> Oh, yeah?
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> look for TC-128: The book
<[JD] JDCLARK> hehehe!
<DEB> Oho, Loren, you forgot about one magazine...<grin>...Computer Living, or 
   whatever Randy Chase calls it!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> out before Christmas (I hope)
<[JD] JDCLARK> you're serious?
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> They are out of business
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> Which disk cataloger for the 128 is best?
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> or at least that is what I heard from Mark Brown at 
   INFO
<DEB> awww, bummer.   Randy got an ST, kinda lost interest in everything else.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> JD, yeah.. I'm serious
<[JD] JDCLARK> By the way, I saw an ad for a 128 program that even TC128 missed 
   (horrors).
<[Lyle] LYLEG> That's what happens when you get an Atari
<[Lyle] LYLEG> <GRIN>
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> JD, I know of about 10 more
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> but what is it?
<[Ray] FRANKIE.HLWD> Take care folks!!  Have a good night!!!
<[Lyle] LYLEG> 'night
<[JD] JDCLARK> A high-res drawing program (640 x 200) in ML called DigiDRAW128 
   from DigiTek inFL.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> yeah, that is brand new
<[JASON] JSCHULZ> I've run into problems with digitek products....
<[JD] JDCLARK> uh oh
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I hope to have one by #18
<[JASON] JSCHULZ> Real shoddy workmanship on some of their stuff.
<[JD] JDCLARK> <-- won't but until TC128 reviews it!
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> I have heard the same about digitek from two separate 
   subscribers
<[JD] JDCLARK> but = buy
<[JASON] JSCHULZ> And no support whatsoever...mail goes unanswered.
<[JD] JDCLARK> never actually heard of 'em...
<[JASON] JSCHULZ> I blew 80.00 on a piece of harware that is useless.
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> anyway... I better get back to work, that is if you 
   guys want #17 anytime
<[____LJL____] SPARROW.J> soon
<DEB> ooo, get back to work then!!!
<[john] J.KRESS> loren, give me a call.
<[JD] JDCLARK> Loren, give a thought to the bimonthly thing, eh?!...
<DEB> (That's a wrap, Jenni....)
=== End of Steno notes. ===