1994 by GEnie ========================================================================== This file is brought to you by The Commodore 64/128 RoundTable on GEnie This file may be published or excerpted in User Group newsletters providing credit is given in this manner: "Copyright 1994 by GEnie From the Commodore 64/128 RoundTable File#:#####" This file maybe be distributed, if distributed whole and unaltered, on non-profit BBSs or non-profit networks. For more information on GEnie call by modem: 1-800-638-8369 (8-N-1 300/1200/2400) Enter: HHH Then reply: xtx99018,commrt Then enter: Commodore And enjoy! ========================================================================== Welcome to the Jim Brain Conference. Tonight's conference is hosted by GEOS-TIM (Tim Hewelt). With the capture and editing of tonight's conference by the expert of conference editing - CBM-BANDIT (Cam Stewart) Hi Cam. Hiya! Happy to be here :) Special behind the scenes production and help is being handled by our Commodore Round Table Hostess, C128-QT.Pie (Sherry Freedline) Hi QT. Thanks Tim...howdy :) Tonight's guest has been known in internet circles for a years. His information area has been the scene of much activity for sometime now. He also does some programming and hardware development. I would like to welcome tonight's special guest - Jim Brain!!! Hi Jim Hello Tim. Many thanks for letting me be a guest tonight. Our pleasure! Tonight's topics are : 1) Trivia and beginnings 2) Brain's Information Treasure House 3) Future Developments Jim, I first heard of you recently through the trivia column in Commodore World magazine. How did this column get started? When I first found out that CMD was going to offer Commodore World, I had already started talking to Doug Cotton I mentioned the trivia, noted that it was available free of charge to magazines and newsletters, and suggested he incorporate it. Astute readers will notice that The first or second time the trivia was in CW, the disclaimer in the front of the mag was changed to rereflect that the trivia is freely reproducible. So, it started running in the magazine, and the rest is as you see it. A lot of readers see the trivia each time the magazine comes out, which fulfills my purpose, and the trivia helps provide content for the magazine, which CMD likes. I chose to provide it free of charge so that it would still be open for the trivia contest. I understand that we have the April Winner of Trivia in our Audience right now! Brenda Gann,Congratulations Brenda! Thanks! Actually, I was the co-winner :) The prize was a copy of a Toaster manual Well, we are still impressed. :) Jim, where do all the prizes come from? Well, in the beginning, when the trivia started in November 1993, there were no prizes. I just ran the contest for no prize. But, as people started to get into the contest, people in the CBM/Amiga community started donating prizes. David Tiberio has been donating the manuals, but people like Bruce Nesbitt (I think that's how it is spelled) donated T-shirts, and others have donated items. Usually, I just provide the supplier with a name and address, and the prize gets shipped directly to the winner, but David T. has been behind, so I will ship some of the prizes from here, after he ships them to me in bulk. Basically, there has never been much problem in the way of prizes, as most people play for the fun and reminiscing, not the prize. Still, it is fun to actually win something. Brenda will be receiving her prize here soon, as will her co-winner. I'll let Brenda tell you all how many she got right when SHE wants... Brenda? I think there were 16 questions, and I got 12 right. I just play it for fun. Great! Jim, could you give us a brief background of how you got into computing, and what role the Commodore has played? I wanted an Atari 2600 in 1983, and my Dad wouldn't let me have a "strict game machine". He said "Buy a computer". So, I looked for machines. I looked at TIs, but were over $300, and I only had $270 so, I looked for the best buy. The VIC-20 at $233.00 came in at the right price. I bought it and a couple of games for $270. After playing with the games a while, I set it on the shelf, but my parents told me I really needed to use it. So, I started using it for other tasks. Then, came a 1541 for a X-mas present a c-64, and my fate was sealed. By then, I knew too much about the machines and could do so much, I couldn't bear to move to anything else. So, I have been into CBM since I was in 5th grade (24 now). I cut my teeth doing ML on the VIC, learned a lot of computer principles on it, programmed my way into college on it, and use it even today. I like the CBM machines because I could understand them. Can't say that about others. You do work with other computer platforms, don't you? Alas, as time has marched on, finding a good job as a CBM programmer is not easy. In college, I had to migrate to an IBM in my senior year, and do write code on IBM, UNIX, in OS/2 DOS, Windows, and UNIX . Still, writing code for those machines lacks the simplicity and attention to detail that the CBM line required, but the pay is OK. Moving into the area that is will be of interest to the people in attendance. After I started talking to you I realized that Trivia was a small part of the service you had been providing for the Commodore Community. And that most C= users that use the internet had known about you long before Commodore World had started publishing your Trivia Columns. They knew you for several forms of information gathering and dispersal. One is the Unix site that you maintain, the second is the Home Page you have, thirdly the FAQ, and the fourth is the hardware and software development. Have I left anything out? The Canonical List of CBM products Oh,yes... Before we move into this topic, I thought a few definitions might be in order. Jim, what is a FAQ? A FAQ is a file native to the USENET service on Internet. When USENET newsgroups started up, people noticed that certain questions get asked over and over, much to the annoyance of regular readers. So, The Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) file construct was created. Most every newsgroup has one, and the newsgroup comp.sys.cbm is no exception. So, the FAQ (in it's simplest form) contains answers to the most common questions that are asked on the USENET newsgroup comp.sys.cbm. Okay, next, What is a Unix site? And how does yours fit in this definition? A UNIX site is a system on the Internet running the UNIX operating system. I rent space on a UNIX site to provide myself with a means to access the Internet, and also provide information on topics (like CBM) to others. One of the more recent popular catch words is World Wide Web. What is the World Wide Web? The World Wide Web (WWW or W3 for short) is an Internet service that allows people to access documents all over the Internet using "hypertext". Hypertext simply means that certain key words or phrases in the document are highlighted, and selecting such a word or phrase will effectively "transport" you to a new page or pages that contain more detailed info on the word. The WWW is unique because it allows these "documents" (called pages) to contain graphics, different fonts, bold and underline letters, bullets and numbersing, and other types of things normally associated with a word processor. The neat thing is, all this is standardized, and the "pages" are designed so that they will look presentable on a variety of different environments. Never before has it been so easy to combine typesetting, graphics, and the ability to link your document with others to create a "web". In addition, the WWW allows you the ability to link to small movies, animations, sound files, and other items. Okay, we have the basic vocabulary to go into the next topic. Before we do so, are there any questions concerning Jim's early work? You mentioned you still use the VIC. What do you use it for. The VIC is the ultimate in computing power for small projects. In addition to just playing with it, I have used and do use VICs to: be the brains of a robot, power electric railroads, Control the lights in my room or house. Also, I can simply run a terminal prg on the VIC and use it to test comm stuff on the 64s. Impressive! Our next topic is : Brain's Information Treasure House. First of all, I understand there are two ways to gain access to the information that you have. How would a user access your files? First is the WWW: the URL is http://www.msen.com/>brain/ Second is my MAILSERV. Mail: brain@mail.msen.com Subject: MAILSERV Body of MSG: HELP Obviously, the information overlaps, but not completely. The MAILSERV has the FAQ, the trivia, the model list, Commodore Hacking newsletters 1-10, and some other assorted info. The WWW site has the FAQ in WWW format, the trivia, a greatly expanded model list, and some pictures of different Commodore machines. Also, the WWW site has links to all the CBM WWW sites I know of. The Audience may be interested, they can visit Jim's Home Page. There is a ton of information! Jim you were talking about links,just what is a link? A link is a nighlighted word or phrase. Example: The Commodore 128 (highlight)1750 REU(un-highlight) was introduced in the year such and such... If I select 1750 REU, it would move me to a page with the following info: Model: 1750 manufacturer CBM. Full Name Ram Expansion Unit. blah blah... Most links are to more pages, but you can link to a graphic, a file, an animation, a sound, on and on... And, there are no rules about what words must be used. It is all left up to the user. So, a link is the key element in WWW. It allows mobility. It expands the horizons. Jim, there is one important information dispenser that I left out, but you mentioned in one of your answers. Hacking magazine, could you tell us about what it is, how one gets it, etc.? Well, Commodore Hacking is an online magazine (in text form) that is available free of charge. It was started by Craig Taylor, and is up to issue 10. Alas, Craig is graduating, and a little unsure of the future, so he has passed the editorship of the mag to me. If anyone ever read a Transactor issue, C= Hacking is the same content. Very detailed, and in depth information. Issue 10 has the beginnings of a multitasking OS for the 128, some algorithms and code to do 3-d GFX, etc. You can get them from the mail server by issuing the request: send c hacking1.txt - replace 1 with 2,3,4,... for other issues. Free!! Not many of those deals anymore. Free Okay, we will open to questions from the audience - we have had one pending from Brenda. I have heard there is a FAQ file that mentions Q-Link and me. How do I get that, do you have it? That would the FAQ I maintain. Your name is mentioned as someone who was trying to gather up all the Q-Link SW. If that info is out of date, I will change it. I would probably just need to add to it. To get the FAQ, just access the WWW site, or do send faq.p1 as a cmd to the mailserver. there are 4 parts, so send faq.p1 send faq.p2 - send faq.p3 etc. Irv Cobb, a host in this RT, has a question. Jim, how long do you think the Internet will maintain ASCII compatibility for those of us who use C= and other older systems? Forever. Let's face it, ASCII is faster than any GUI. When I am using the Internety on my OS/2 machine at work, I run a simple terminal prg to look at my mail. Why? It is simply faster. Until they can make GUI programs that are as fast as ASCII, ASCII text will be supported by the Internet. One of the most interesting ways to check out what Jim has in the way of files is to visit the Home Page. I found myself in Germany when I clicked one of the "links" Are there any more questions concerning the homepage, Unix, WWW Hacking Magazine? Brenda has a question This is to GEOS-Tim... you found yourself in Germany? Yes, at a Home page of a University student, I forget the name of the university. If he had stayed linking, he would have hit Finland, Australia, Sweden... Surfing is fun! :D Does this cost more $? Nope. Not one thin dime more. The GEnie hookup charges are all the same as if you stayed on GEnie gotta learn how to use the Internet :) What is your WWW address again, Jim? http://www.msen.com/>brain/ To get to the CBM stuff quicker: http://www.msen.com/>brain/cbmhome.html The only symbol commodore users may have trouble with is the >. Check with your terminal docs to see how you make it. Dialogue 128 uses shift * What does it look like? It looks like a tilde on RTCM It is a tilde. We are about to slip into the FUTURE Before this conference, Jim and I had a phone conversation about this conference. One of the topics we talked about were future developments in the Commodore and hardware and software areas. C= Hacking magazine was mentioned and the MultiTasking OS article, along with other developments that Jim is either involved with or disperses information about was discussed. Some very exciting projects are either being explored, researched or being worked on by programmers in Us and in Europe. Jim, could you tell us about some of the projects that are going on right now? Well, there is the drive to put the CBM on the Internet. Some people, myself included, are working on TCP/IP - SLIP protocols for the 64/128. That will enable a Commodore computer to be a site on the Internet (not a big site, mind you, but still). Also, developing a way to utilize the new 16 and 20 MHz 6502 derivative CPU chips from Western Design Center in a CBM 8 -bit machine. I am working on that by myself. The most advanced topic thus far is the multitasking OS designs, At last count there are 5 or so of them. These operating systems allow the user to run multiple programs at once and create complex commands on a command line by "chaining simpler cmds together. (called piping). Some other projects in my head or wherever: - Interfacing a standard IBM keyboard to the 64/128 - Interfacing IBM ISA bus peripheral cards to the 64/128 - A WWW browser (standalone or Internet access) for the 64/128 - A low cost LCD screen (640*480*64 gray shades) for the CBM line. And, the ability to add all of these up into a single "mega" 64, I guess would be appropriate. Impressive!!! Now, mind you, I am not implying all of these projects will be fruitful. Some are in my head. Some are on paper, some are in coding, and some are in between somewhere. However, the machines are simply too much fun to not be tinkering with them, and even if I don't develop these things, any initial "feasibility" work I do can be used by others to go where I can't go (or, more probable, don't have time to go). Jim, Doesn't the C= CPU run faster than an IBM cpu if you compare one mhz.? If that is so, how would a 16 mhz 64 compare with a clone? Well, most instructions on the CBM line take an average of 3 to 4 cycles to complete. On an IBM, the same instruction could take from 3 to 50 cycles. So, a 16 MHz CPU (6502) can do some things faster than a 33 (or even 50) Mhz IBM. Mind you, this is an apples and oranges type of comparison to some extent, but still, oit still proves that you can't just compare clock speeds. This 16 mhz is a real possibility? The chip already works at up to 20 Mhz, and can be pushed to probably 30 Mhz. The trick is simply shoehorning it into the 64 or 128. It's been done before (TurboMaster, TurboAccess, Flash8), the approach is the same, the only change is the speed. Would you need a new operating system to run something like this? Not necessarily, although a new one would help take advantage of it. You should still be able to run many existing pieces of SW although those with very precise timing or those that don't play by any rules are bound to give problems. See, in any accelerator, as they are called, you can speed up the memory, the CPU, and the discrete logic, but the VIC-II, the CIA chips, and the SID chip are stuck at 1 MHz. So, a new OS would take advantage of fast memory, and make wise use of the slow components. Well, it certainly sounds like some exciting things are going on. Are there any audience questions? We have covered a lot of material If you update a FAQ, how do people know that it is updated from the version they have? Well, the FAQ does have a version number. However, modifications do not require changing it. There is also a "Last-Updated" field at the beginning of each FAQ part to note the relative dates. In addition, each change in the FAQ is denoted by a "+" in front of a new line, and a "<" in front of a changed line. Usually, only errors and small mods are done before a version number is changed. Right now, the FAQ is at 3.0 Before we go into a more informal mode, I'd like to take this time to thank Jim Brain for coming in as a guest speaker. It has been very interesting, and informative. I know what home page I'll be starting my "surfing" from. Thanks Jim! No problem. Jim will be staying for a little while to gab When's the next contest? Last I got was 17. 19. It was posted on the 19th of June, in fact. How do we get the contest sent to us? Brenda: Well, Just grab the newest from the MAILSERV every month. Oh, I thought it was automatically sent. I haven't set it up to distribute the trivia to mail people yet. Everyone needs to tell Raymond Day the following, cause I asked him to stay so he could ask the following. OK., Ray's Q: He wanted to know about the 1541 drive and some history. So, you can tell him that Commodore created the 1541 from the 1540, which was the VIC drive. The 1540 was created from the 2031 drive. The 1542 was a rebadged 1541, the 1551 was a descendant of the 1541, the 1571 was a descendant of the 1551, the 1581 was descended from the 1571, and the internal drive in the C65 was descended from the 8250 drive. wow There, that will give him something to chew on. Here's something else.. Maybe it is something you already said... but someone showed me a disk cleaner with an 8" drive on it, and it looked exactly like a 1540. It did not say Commodore on it though. The 8280 Commodore drive was an 8" drive IEEE format Oh, and tell ray that the 2031 -> 1540 descent could be 4040/4030 -> 1540, it is so hard to tell. But the rest is true. My 1541 says 1541 on the front, but a label says 1540 on the back. OK, B: the 1541/40 anomaly is since your's is an early prod model of the 1541, I believe. Remember, the 1540 and 41 differed only in DOS ROM.